Since its release in 2007 the internet film Zeitgeist has been seen by 50 million people around the world. The film attacks the foundations of Christianity by claiming that the historical Jesus never existed. Jesus was originally a solar deity, whose story closely parallels several other pagan gods. The story of Jesus life is best understood as an astrological analogy. When the first Council of Nicaea met in 325 under the direction of the Roman Emperor Constantine, the Christ myth was rewritten as if it were real historical fact. While some of the ideas in the Zeitgeist film are based in fact, others are pure fiction. Tim Callahan, religion editor for Skeptic Magazine, joins us on the show to share his critique of the filmTo download this or any previous Reasonable Doubts episodes click here. Find the episode you want and right click the "play now" link and select "save target as..."
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16 comments:
Great show! Good points about just what skepticism is. I liked two parts of the Zeitgeist movie, the very beginning when the "guru" is talking about how some people have constructed their theology to just be waiting for the after-life, and the very end with comedian Bill Hicks doing his show-closing bit about how we can simply choose between fear and love. If we choose love, we could easily solve a lot of the world's problems.
The stuff in the middle (i.e. most of the movie) is entertaining in the same way as watching old Godzilla movies.
You should do a show on Bill Hicks BTW. I'm sure his surviving family or friends would be glad to talk about him.
This was a great show, chaps - well done. The mad thing about Zeitgeist is that we *know* that conspiracies are not required for things like religions to get started. The best evidence *against* the resurrection is the bible itself, and I would totally endorse Hector Avalos's suggestion of reading all four gospels *side-by-side* instead of one after the other.
Certainly, that is what made me realise that the resurrection never happened, and once you realise that, the rest follows quite naturally.
Helio, what exactly are you referring to when you talk about a parallel reading of the Gospels? You mean that since the details don't align, you stopped believing in the resurrection? Just curious.
Oh Geeez, Tim Callahan has no clue what he's talking about.
Critique of ZG1 by Skeptic Tim Callahan, thread
Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST
(and Religious History)
Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST (and Religious History)
I think you did a poor job on this, check your facts... I certainly did not hear a debunk and i don't think the interview went the way you thought as you seemed to think you would laugh during the whole thing, but i didn't hear you laughing at the end when Tim said it was possible. I have the script and sources if you need them. The movement is not based on this, its Peters opinion. The movement is based on addendum. But still i have yet to see this debunked. Maybe you do not like some sources and we can talk about that. Nothing is just made up though as you laughingly contend.
I would also like to hear a debunk of the Addendum film and possibly of the views of Mr. Fresco and The Venus Project. Addendum is really where the movement starts as BlitzB4 stated but the monetary system and the implications for society as a whole might be outside the normal scope for your show.
I found Zeitgeist: The Movie entertaining for the same reasons I found X-Files entertaining. The "What if" questions it brings up. I never believed in a major religion and was not raised particularly Christian anymore than what I absorbed through cultural influences, so I still thought it just as "out there" as what people have professed to me as their "truth."
Also, love the show. Very informative and great for helping me, the life long non-religious get some perspective and understanding.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Zeitgeist Addendum includes any of the religion related content of the first. Which means that it's not really the kind of thing we'll be taking on on the show.
I would certainly be interested to hear what our listeners think about it, though. Head to the forum and discuss it there.
http://doubtcast.forumotion.net
I'd like everyone to know about a dunking site of not only Zeitgeist but the Addendum. Best I've seen so far!
http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/
Conspiracyscience is a joke of a website, and it's claims are routinely broken down on the Zeitgeist Forums. Here is an example, by PJ himself:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=267464#267980
This article refutes and disproves claims of Zeitgeist movie, from the part of Christianity:
http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/zeitgeist_movie.html
I suggest to read the article!
I just recently found this podcast and have been downloading and listening to a bunch of them. I love it. This show is no exception. The only part in which you lose points is your take on the 2nd part of the film dealing with 9/11. As a life long New Yorker and someone who has closely followed the events from day one, it's disheartening to hear skeptics, whose show I listen to and have growing respect for, who still believe the story of the 19 hijackers who snuck into the U.S. and circumvented a multi-billion defense and security infrastructure. What did it for me was watching WTC 7 come crashing to the ground in a matter of seconds. As a skeptic, a light should have gone on and said that something is not right. But that's nit picking. You guys have a great show and I will keep listening.
Jesus was real. The story of him being the true son of God comes into serious question, since it was the Romans who created Christianity itself. Jesus was a rabbi, not a Christian. He had a family, children, and his story is being slowly uncovered by the decendents of the Merovingian kings. I am one of those decendents. King Dagobert is an ancestor of mine, and I can trace my lineage back over 2000 years. Argue with that one!
Jesus had children?
It will not really have effect, I feel like this.
I'm an atheist but Zeitgeist is garbage. It uses the work of 19th century pesdohistorans. The movie is horribly flawed in so many
Horus wasn't born of a virgin at all. In one version he was the son of Isis and Osiris, as Heru-ur was the son of Ra and Hathor. Dionysus wasn't born of a virgin, his father was Zeus and his mother Semele. Krishna was the 8th son of Devaki and her husband Vasudeva. Mithras was born fully grown out of a rock. The words sun and son only work in English. The discovery of the precession of the equinoxes was discovered by Hipparchus in the 2nd century B.C. None of the pagan deities were born on December 25 and the Bible never claims the Jesusnwas born on December 25. No other godman were crucified other than Jesus.
Both theists and atheists should be ASHAMED to cite that pathetic Skeptic
Project / Conspiracy Science website, which was addressed below long ago:
Skeptic Project / Con-Sci on ZG1, DEBUNKED
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2609
I especially love this one where Ed makes a complete fool of himself with
the "Ferseus" bit (in red) because he has absolutely no clue what he's
talking about:
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19839#p19839
Callahan was already debunked in the link posted above:
Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST (and Religious History)
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/skeptic-zeitgeist.html
Skeptic Magazine Critique of Zeitgeist Part 1
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2541
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